Radical simplicity, frugality–for couples only?
Last week, in the discussion following the post, Risks you’d take to live your dream, Maus posed a question that deserved a post in its own right:
Patricia’s story, as well as that of Trisha’s here at SIF and Jacob’s at ERE, makes me wonder if living at the edge is easier (or at least easier to contemplate) if you have a spouse or partner. While I have no qualms about living a simple life, indeed I embrace it; I am held back by the prospect of loneliness or isolation, especially in the later stages of life. It is one reason that I remain rooted in outrageously expensive California. There are no (habitable) houses for $250 a year; but my family and friends are nearby. To me, the prospect of real hardship can only be borne with the knowledge that I can draw on the support of friends and family.
What do others think? Is the single versus coupled dichotomy a false one with respect to radical simplicity?
Couples, simplicity and frugality: practical considerations.
Simple, frugal--easier for couples?
Immediately after reading Maus’s comment my mind began to mull over all the ways in which I’ve found that living in a couple makes it easier. Financial advantages of living in a couple include shared lodging and entertainment. Less tangible benefits such as moral support and companionship can make situations comfortable and happy when they would otherwise feel austere. Should you fall on hard times, you (ideally) have a partner or spouse to help boost your morale or support you.
Honestly, though, how many people have you heard complaining on blogs and in real life that they would love to indulge in radical simplicity, if only their spouse or partner would agree? While I admit this is not my particular experience, it’s not difficult to find examples of people who feel that their husbands,wives, partners stop them from achieving the degree of minimalism they seek, from spending less or from ‘dropping out of the rat race.’
Sometimes couples support each other during hard times, but not always. I’ve also seen couples fight over reduced incomes, money troubles or simple discrepancies in how money should be spent.
Do radical simplicity, frugality and social isolation go hand in hand?
Maus seems to draw a link between simplicity and “loneliness” or isolation, but does one really follow the other? If you look at Patricia’s example, she and her partner left the UK to resettle in a rather rural (read remote) area. I left many of my friends and all my family behind to move to France. Jacob from ERE is also living a somewhat uprooted lifestyle, although he left his native Denmark years ago.
I suppose that one could conclude that leaving your native culture and moving someplace new requires that you leave behind your connections, however, I’m not sure that leaving family behind is necessary. At least one of the examples above, Jacob, happens to live in an extremely high-rent area. He certainly hasn’t found himself forced to move and leave it all behind in order to simplify. Patricia and I have moved and simplified, but if you remember from Patricia’s story, she has a lot of local friends and a very rich social life in Portugal. As for my husband and I, we now live much closer to his family and our friends in France, so we hardly find ourselves alone–quite the contrary. As DH recovers from his accident we’re surrounded by family and friends.
If you think about societies where social isolation occurs, do you think of radically simple ones? I personally think of affluent societies. I’ve never been to Cuba, but whenever I watch a documentary on that country, I see people living lifestyles we’d probably consider quite radical by US standards, and all the while, they find themselves tightly connected to the society around them. For example, in Cuba, I recently learned that drivers are required to pick up hitch hikers and that taxis can’t leave until they are full. That’s just one example of the way societies can be simple in terms of material goods and highly complex in terms of interdependence and relationships.
Sharing resources and living a simplified life can bring all kinds of contact with others. Patricia found herself bartering with neighbors; Jacob has theorized about sharing large tools between neighbors. The most radically simple lifestyles I’ve ever currently witnessed were in Madagascar–where people were appalled to learn that occasionally in the US, an elderly person can die at home and the fact can go undiscovered for some time. In Madagascar, this is unthinkable.
What do you think about living simply and frugally?
Is it possible when you’re single? Is it easier in a couple? What are your experiences in this area? Does simplicity lead to social isolation? Does living in a couple protect you from the precarious nature of life?
I think it would be safe to say it’s a challenge to find someone to radically simplify with, I find it hard to find girls who relate to my mentality, which means selective dating (by the way less dating means less cost, haha, i kid), but I think that it might be just a matter of how much you value the opinion of another person. Some people are fine being alone while others need steady relationships, I’m sure you know of people who always need to be in a relationship and can’t stand being alone… like pretty much everything “it depends.” In this instance it depends on who’s opinion your valuing and your level of mental independence. Just my 2 cents.
This is such an interesting question to ponder. One can be lonely in a crowd or in a marriage and more fulfilled during periods of solitude.
Also, culture plays a part in how you socialise. For example, you can talk to an Englishman all night in a bar and never find out what he does for a living whereas in New York, that’s the first thing a person asks you and it makes the conversation, and friendships, more formal. There’s less hilarity in NYC. But back to couples vs singles in frugality: 2 in 3 marriages end in divorce and couples argue about money more than most issues, so you can’t guarantee that you’ll be married for life whomever you choose. Frankly, it seems like a miracle when spouses agree on anything. Whether you simplify alone or together, you still need friends, a community to be immersed in. It takes an special kind of person to live a life of solitude, within or without a marriage, especially when that marriage can go down the toilet at a moment’s notice!
I think its neither here nor there. Sure I could be much simpler and more frugal if I wasn’t married to DH (but I don’t know if I would want to live that life alone). If I started living a simpler life (and stuck to it) when I was younger and single I would have sought out a spouse who shared those same values, but because I changed the game plan 10 years into our marriage I will have to deal with resistance and compromise.
Being simple and frugal while single or married does not mean isolation. For it to work for anyone you have to find and surround yourself with like minded people, and once you start living the simple life you will be surprise (or at least I was) how many like minded people there are out there.
In my early twenties, I wanted to live a radically simple lifestyle but I could never quite really take the leap. However, I still could see myself doing it as an older person after I retire. We’ll see.
My boyfriend lived a radically simple lifestyle growing up in Lima. He would spend the summers out in the country in northern Peru with his grandfather, living in a small shack with no electricity (so no tv) and no running water, and he HATED IT. He’d beg his grandmother to let him stay in Lima, but every summer, she would send him off… So needless to say, he likes his creature comforts (tv, gadgets, roomy home, meals out, vacations), but I still think he lives a very frugal lifestyle for SoCal standards. But anyway, I don’t think he’d ever want to take the plunge into an extreme, radically simple living situation, and I can’t imagine changing my lifestyle without him.
How about your DH? Do you think he is down for simple living? I know he’s kind of a gadget guy…
There are lots of people who radically simplify as singles. They can fit in smaller spaces such as vans or cabins they’ve built themselves which can be supported with one solar panel.
Everyone needs love and it doesn’t matter if you are single or married, rich or poor. I think what living frugally and simply forces people to do is to dig deep into themselves to find joy, love and happiness without all the crutches, money and gadgets give. People that can’t be quiet or be alone even for a little while find it harder to be frugal and live simply because it forces them to think and evaluate their lives. Some people are afraid of their own thoughts, so they run out to the mall or get on their cell phones or go to a bar, etc. instead of staying home on a Saturday, enjoying some quiet time alone with a book. Even if married, people feel alone, if the couple doesn’t share the same values. I think living frugally requires an inner strength that many people don’t have. They are afraid to evalute what makes them happy and why. If you read about the Catholic Saints you see many were “poor” in material things but, because of the love of God and loving and helping their neighbor, they found joy. Read the life of St. Francis, for example. Also, many Saints relied on Divine Providence to supply their needs and were never disappointed. God will not let you down if you trust in Him. That is just too much for some people to believe. Read the book of Matthew and see what that says about trusting God. I think living simply is possible for single and married, but it forces you to rely on Providence, and not yourself, and that scares a lot of people. Bernadette
Living the simple life is a personal choice. If you have two people in a couple that make that choice, then the couple can live simply and be happy. Mathmatically, it should be much more probably that a single person can live the way they want way more than a couple can since a couple needs compromise.
I personally am happier with my husband than I would be alone. I can’t live as simply as I normally would, but the emotional benefits of being in a relationship far outweigh the cost of compromise. Even if we argue, we know that we love each other completely and will be there to hold each other up during the worst days.
“probable” instead of “probably”…yuck…
Trish, thanks for doing my comment justice. I found it particulary relevant considering some of the comments that followed on Alex’s observations about the social attractiveness of frugality on Jacob’s ERE a few days ago.
I didn’t intend to link simple living and loneliness in a causal way when I asked my question. I guess I am just one of those people who struggles with the idea of leaving close-knit family and friends in expensive California to try and forge new friendships in a more frugal place. As a single guy, I am aware that there are theoretically thousands of women who would appreciate my values and choices. But as Glenn from To Simplify… has observed, telling a date whom you hope to convince to repeat the experience that you live in van (as he does) or that you live in an 800 sq. foot home and drive a beater pick-up (as I do) presents a distinct challenge. Perhaps I should start the equivalent of match.com for frugalistas.
This topic is so provocative on many levels. There is the loneliness that arises from the sense of alienation that consumer society seems to enhance. Most veterans of simple living seem to dispell that without much angst. I know that I am appalled with how easily my young neices and nephews prioritize plugging into isolating electronics-enabled activities over interacting with other people. Then there is the sharp distinction between being alone and being lonely. Some people manage the former fairly well. And has been noted, being single allows for much more compact living circumstances. But I am most interested in the psychological resilience that seems to support couples who share a philosophy of simple living. It just strikes me that so many of the bloggers whose words give evidence that they are not merely living simply but thriving in the face of consumerist society are in a committed relationship. It causes me to wonder if “us versus them” is more successful/contented than “me versus them.”
Patricia–you know, I was thinking the same thing as I wrote this–just because you’re in a couple now does not mean you will not live alone again in the future. Having connections matters a lot. When my husband got in his car accident this winter, people in our village thought I was alone (because DH’s family wasn’t in town). They completely rallied around me/us even though we’d only been there a few months–I mean, yes, before that, we did make the effort to get to know people, so that they knew we existed, but I like living in a place where you aren’t just forgotten with your troubles. It’s valuable whether you’re single or not, and it’s something people could learn from in my native California–and from what you write in parts of the UK as well.
Ryan I concur 
. It can also depend on where you are at a given time in your life. I’ve definitely gone through stints happily single and, actually, I’ve found that when you move to a new place alone sometimes people kind of adopt you . . . perhaps even more so than if you were traveling as a couple. The same can go for social/cultural activities etc. But what do you mean by ’selective dating?’ This is a completely new term to me–I haven’t dated in. . .um, 10 years!
JN UrbanksiIt’s always a pleasure to read your comments here. “It takes an special kind of person to live a life of solitude, within or without a marriage.” I could not agree more. And you are right to point out that a relationship doesn’t necessarily prevent loneliness.
Tree Changing your values while in a relationship can be a struggle, thanks for pointing that out. But it sounded to me from some of your last posts that your husband was becoming a bit more supportive of your new ways/ideas. . .and you’re right about surrounding yourself with like-minded people too. As we simplify, we’ve found that a number of friends and family have some of the same ideas we do; we’d just never talked about it before.
PicklerOh the gadgets . . . in fact, this winter, he decided that he did not need another (number 5!) new i-pod. But I find that all people are kind of schizo in their simple living strategies. We have our bikes and our electronics, yes, but there’s still a lot we can do to simplify and be frugal without going entirely off grid–although, I have to admit, it’s a lifestyle that fascinates me. I can see though, how living that lifestyle voluntarily would not have the same feel at all as having it imposed on you as in your partner’s case. I can certainly see why he’d have no desire to back to that. Perhaps that’s why he was anti-camping before?
Living Our Way a cabin supported by one solar panel sounds brilliant. And I suppose that these folks aren’t forced to somehow never meet others for choosing to live that way.
Bernadette I love this line: “I think what living frugally and simply forces people to do is to dig deep into themselves to find joy, love and happiness without all the crutches, money and gadgets give.” And I think that living simply doesn’t so much make it impossible to rely on yourself as it demonstrates that you could never really rely on yourself in the first place–that’s how it feels to me. Without all of those distractions, you sometimes have to come to terms with life and its impermanence.
Budgeting in the Fun Stuff I think the issue of compromise is interesting. I find that both my husband and I are frugal in certain ways. I for one, have no patience for scraping together airline miles or checking every possible ticket before a trip home to visit family–but DH will. I on the other hand will spend the time to make a price book and comparison shop at grocery stores until I can figure out how to get the best deal. And that’s just in the realm of frugality. I second your opinion that it’s more important to stay happily in a relationship with a few compromises then to live strictly with your principles but alone.
SIF, you address the most interesting issues! Love it.
Maus, I want to comment on this: “But I am most interested in the psychological resilience that seems to support couples who share a philosophy of simple living. It just strikes me that so many of the bloggers whose words give evidence that they are not merely living simply but thriving in the face of consumerist society are in a committed relationship. It causes me to wonder if “us versus them” is more successful/contented than “me versus them.”
My husband and I share a love of frugality and simple living but not so much out of a shared ideology. I’m resisting the consumer culture and he’s…well, he’s just Scottish. Stereotypical to the core in regard to frugality! However, he doesn’t share hardly any of my convictions for living a simple, frugal life–care for the environment, disdain for consumerism, etc. It’s just a cultural thing for him, so there really is no “us vs. them.”
Although the formerly single woman in me is screaming in protest at this, I have to be honest–healthy partnerships simply make life easier, which makes thriving in ANY situation easier. I don’t believe that romantic relationships are the pinnacle of all forms of love, but they do lend themselves to any easy kind of intimacy and support. So, if your shared desire is to consume to the hilt or keep it simple, I think it’s just easier to do if you’re involved in a healthy partnership.
In other news, yes! Start a frugal match site. I have two friends to send your way who would love to meet a sane, simple-living man out here in fake boob & botox LA. 
I don’t think that it is really easier or harder to live simply as a couple or as single. It depends on both the person or persons involved and their perspectives on the topic.
I live with a roommate in a basement apartment, and my BF lives in a house with 3 other roommates. We both are very close to our families, and that’s one of the reasons that we are rooted in Toronto.
I think we have a fairly simple lifestyle that we enjoy when we are together – such as sleeping, eating, cooking, exercising, and watching re-runs of criminal minds (in that order! ). We both don’t really care for expensive/brand name things or possessing “stuff.” We prefer experiences and that’s where we spend our money on as a couple.
Not sure if that answered your questions. I seemed to have rambled off track. I’ll stop now 
Thought-provoking…and you inspire the best comments. I knew it was a lucky day when I found my frugal husband. I know that there would have been money issues with the other men I was involved with. I think a couple can have frugal synergy–i am a good shopper and cook; I handle the finances; Mr. FS fixes things, puts up shelves, gardens, paints…and more. Interestingly, Mr. FS said he was attracted to ME b/c I didn’t expect anyone to support me in a certain style. He didn’t want that kind of pressure. He liked that I was resourceful and didn’t want that much expensive stuff.
Maus–as always, you raise excellent questions that I will now probably be thinking about for days. I have to say that I agree with Consciously Frugal: a frugal dating site is a great idea–or a non-consumer dating site. I’ve seen friends in LA date some of the most atrocious people and I can certainly verify that there are plenty of unsavory potential dates out there who drive nice cars and live in fancy condos. . . ugh! I think that you may be right in terms of the issue of psychological resistance to go ‘against the grain.’ Although as Pickler and Consciously Frugal both demonstrate you’re not going against the grain if your frugal/simple values are culturally accepted as in Peru, or Scotland or France . . .in that case, you have an entire arsenal of culture surrounding you as well. That’s a perfect example of ‘us versus them’ that I’m reminded of all the time. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work for couples as well. Sometimes it is just nice to have someone who agrees with your oddball ways!
Having a spouse or partner who shares your ideals is a wonderful thing, I must admit. But even within a relationship, your individual values and priorities change over time. The drift towards simplicity and living frugally didn’t really start on a conscious level for DH and I until after we were married, I think. I suppose we both had tendencies in that direction, but we really discovered that side of ourselves later. Perhaps we allowed each other to become that way by providing support somehow.
Consciously Frugal Your comments about your husband and his ‘cultural frugality’ are so fascinating to me. It is interesting that here in France, we’re often not really looked at as outliers. I kind of enjoy that. I want to do a post some day or a series of them on culture and attitudes toward money, spending, frugality . . .consumerism. It’s a vast topic, but so interesting. I also have to say that I find it interesting that there are so many men–including Maus and the other men he mentioned– who have trouble meeting women who are comfortable with frugality, while at the same time, I know so many women who actually value that kind of attitude in men. At first I kind of assumed that these men were not looking in the right places. . .and now I’m not so sure. But a frugal dating website would be brilliant!
Aspiring Minimalist Feel free to ramble any time! I think that what strikes me about your example is that you have a number of people (the ones you both live with) who are obviously happy sharing space with others and keeping things simple. I do think that, whether you are in a couple or not, finding friends who are ok with your lifestyle really matters.
Frugal Scholar I first ‘took notice’ of my husband when he told me he had once been a computer/micro engineer and had given that up to become a teacher so he’d have more time with family and because he liked working with kids. I thought it was great that he had his career in perspective and that he was willing to give up money for something more important. I also don’t think I could deal with being with someone who had destructive personal finances (like huge credit card debt). It strikes me as a problem. . .I think that frugal couples do very well together because you take away so much of the pressure–for one or both partners to earn a certain amount of money, or pressure to take on debt, or even just dumb fighting about money.
I think having a good partner makes everything easier. Having a partner who’s out of sync with your values and what you want in life makes everything harder.
Clisby–absolutely. I’m fairly sure I’d be miserable married to someone who didn’t share my values. How frustrating. I didn’t mind being single and I’m sure I’d prefer it to having to constantly compromise what I believe.
“Honestly, though, how many people have you heard complaining on blogs and in real life that they would love to indulge in radical simplicity, if only their spouse or partner would agree?” made me think of a blog post I read a few months ago about “the family cloth” or whatever it’s called when you wipe with a textile cloth instead of toilet tissue. The overwhelmingly-female commenters almost universally claimed that their husbands could NOT be converted.
But, also, speaking of Cuba, I’ve been thinking of writing a post on my blog about the time I spent living in Cuba… stayed tuned.
AMD–how fun! I can’t wait to read about CUBA. And that reminds me . . .I think I have an issue reading your ‘feed’ in my reader. I’m going to double check it. And as for the family cloth–that’s the kind of thing I’d put a lot of research into before I attempted to convince my husband. I mean, I’m not even fully convinced yet that it’s sanitary . . .but if I were convinced, I might give it a try.
It’s easier to live a simple and frugal life if your married, more so if you have a kid. When I was single I tend to buy everything I want and need, I go everywhere I want to but now, I set my priorities. Focus on spending less and earning more. For me it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to isolate yourself from the outside world because there are still fun thing to do without spending too much. It’s more of you manage your finances without really depriving yourself.
Maus said, “It causes me to wonder if “us versus them” is more successful/contented than “me versus them.”” As one half of a homesteading couple, I have to agree that this does help. I always wanted to homestead and live the simple life, so I can’t say that I wouldn’t be doing this if my husband hadn’t come along. But his support does make it a lot easier.
When we chose to drag a 40 year old (free!) trailer onto our property to live on, my father gave us matching “redneck trailer service” caps — clearly, he wasn’t pleased that his daughter was now trailer trash. But we were able to laugh it off because we knew we had a free place to live for the rest of our lives!
Frugality also requires a lot of ingenuity and skills, and as several people have mentioned it helps to have two people to put their heads together. Mark fixes everything that breaks, and I grow most of our food, keeping our expenses extremely low.
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Christina–it’s interesting that you say it’s easier to be frugal with a child. I don’t have any children myself but I’ve heard plenty of people saying things like, “Just wait ’till you have kids!” I do think that being married had the effect you mentioned on my husband and I. Whenever we spend money we are spending money that belongs to each other. It’s not a simple, individual decision anymore, so we think a little more carefully before buying.
AnnaI can certainly see where in a situation such as homesteading, you’d be better off with two instead of one. Not simply for social and moral support, but for a little division of labor. There is so much to know how to do that it seems like it would be difficult to be able to handle it all on your own. Or at least to the same degree that you can with both of you working on it. Thanks for your comment–your blog looks interesting too.
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To my way of thinking, it doesnt matter whether you are in a couple or not, you can be alone and isolated anywhere, its how YOU interact with the people around you and in social situations… plus the attitude of those around you too. I know of people in the UK how live in major towns who never interact with anyone else for weeks at a time apart from shop assistant… old people die alone… Its the social structure of your society that makes the difference and how you react to it…
In Portugal, we’ve found a completely different way of living and I dont mean just our monetry lifestyle, we’ve done our best to integrate, and have been welcomed, the peole here look after each other, they have community spirit like I’ve never experienced before, and which is unheard of where we come from…when we were considering coming here and living as we do, I had to think about the fact that odds on I would end up here alone at some point, my husband is almost 9 years older than me… would I still want to do this alone… would I want to live here alone…. at the time, I wasnt sure, now after 4 years, I know I would be ok, as ok as I could be anywhere, probably better… I would be looked after, and kept an eye on, helped with the heavy work and land work… I know this, because the whole village does it for each other now… the community spirit here is wonderful…
Its how YOU integrate, and where you choose to live.. thats important…