Greeks, Goldman Sachs, US Goverment–whose mess is it?
Note: this post was inspired by a lively back and forth between the authors of the Monevator and Money Energy on the issues surrounding the Goldman Sachs scandals, the responsibilities of various nations involved and the economic differences between the US and Greece. You can see those posts and threads here and here.
Watching the Goldman Sachs scandals unfold as a US citizen and resident of France has been an interesting journey to say the least. To me, Goldman Sach’s entanglements with Greece felt to me like an act of war on the European Union. I wondered what the US government would have to say about all this and discovered, to my mystification, that all of Goldman Sach’s questionable behavior both in Europe and the US appeared (mostly!) legal. See this great Newshour report for a summary of how this is possible if, like me, you still struggle to fathom it–this explanation is for Goldman Sachs’ shenanigans in the US, but the basic principles are the same as with the Greek fiasco.
Blaming Goldman Sachs? Too easy, I’m afraid.
Goldman Sachs did what any an amoral(immoral) corporation would: make money by any means legally possible. They make an easy target for hatred, especially when you see the contents of their personal emails splashed about the news (who are these people?!?) or watch their representatives being vilified by congress (Newshour coverage). Here’s a gem from Senator John Ensign of Nevada during recent Senate hearings:
I think most people in Las Vegas would take offense at having Wall Street compared to Las Vegas, because, in Las Vegas, actually, people know that the odds are against them. They play anyway. On Wall Street, they manipulate the odds while you’re playing the game.
Does that tongue-lashing make you feel better? . . . Me either. Part of me would love to see Goldman Sachs actually face the real threat of being held legally accountable for their actions–but that would have required their actions actually being illegal.
Blaming the US congress and US voters?
I’m not particularly impressed by our members of congress at this time. Perhaps US voters should consider vilifying (and then voting out) our politicians, rather than allowing ourselves to be distracted by their silly Senate hearings about actions the implicitly appear to condone when they refuse to make them illegal. Indeed, by sitting back and failing to act, we are also condoning such behavior.
And what about those Greeks?
The French media are very preoccupied with the financial corruption of the Greek government, and the rampant tax evasion that occurs there. Often sited here in France as a symbol of corruption and irresponsibility, le travail au noir, or under the table work is a common source of contention.
After all, if you found yourself forced to shoulder the debts of a fellow Euro nation, wouldn’t you want to know that the citizens of that nation were at least paying their own fair share of taxes? It all starts to seem rather incredible watching people who allegedly don’t pay into their own social programs rioting in the streets when those social programs prove underfunded.
Greek Fiscal Fraud–is it justified?
Recently, I saw a most compelling article at Le Figaro, in which Catherine Schlepp, a former resident of Greece sets out to explain the rampant under-the-table work environment in Greece. By the time I’d finished reading it, it had me wondering whether I wouldn’t be guilty of tax evasion myself if I lived in Greece. As Schlepp puts it:
If the Greeks cheat and refuse to pay their taxes, if fiscal fraud has become a national sport, it’s also because the role of the government is less visible than it is in France.”
She then further details failures in all areas of Greece’s public sector from education, to the hospital system and the justice system and depicts a country with relatively low social assistance for the unemployed. Given such a track record, it’s no wonder the Greek government struggles to impose new taxes or simply collect those already in place. The question the Greeks seem to be asking: “What have you done for me lately?”
Schlepp argues, rather convincingly, that for the Greeks tax evasion has become a “condition of survival.” Indeed, when you factor in the arrival of the Euro, the already struggling Greeks have seen their cost of living skyrocket, keeping pace with the costs in other European countries while their salaries have failed to budge.
How relevant is the Greek example to other nations today?
What has happened (over many decades) in Greece is what happens in any nation on any continent whose government becomes too corrupt and inept to help its own citizens–or to allow them to support themselves financially without cheating. To say that economically the US is better off than Greece might well be true. Politically, however, the US government seems to be heading closer every day towards the kind of monumental political folly that got the Greeks where they are today. I would argue that it’s a matter of degree, and perhaps time.
And here in Europe, the question of travail au noir as people attempt to make ends meet and lose faith in their governments does not seem isolated to Greece. Here in France, I hear people talking on a daily basis about the extra hours they work on a ‘cash’ basis or that contractor for home repairs paid au noir.
Lest anyone argue (fairly) that the above is mere anecdotal evidence, I present you with the fact that under-the-table wage earners doubled in France between 2003-2008. And 65% of those caught working tax-free were French nationals–not immigrants. See full article here (in French). I’m sure we will discover similar problems in countries (Portugal) as well in the days to come.
Is it just me or is the guilt spread around?
I’m starting to wonder if anyone is going to escape blame here–with the possible exception of the Canadians
. On one hand, it’s easy to smell a rat in the Goldman Sachs escapades, although they may have been technically legal. And these same Wall Street companies seem to only be able to do their deals when political leaders turn their heads to their ways and average citizens become greedy (as in the US) or willing break the law (as in Greece).
What are your thoughts on the legality and morality of the Goldman Sachs scandals on these two continents? Do regular people have as much responsibility as corporations to behave ethically? Are the Greeks behaving unethically when they refuse to fork over their legal share of taxes to their (corrupt) government?
The Greeks are perfectly entitled to view paying taxes as optional, provided they don’t suddenly demand other people pay for their lifestyle. That seems ot be where this is going wrong.
This bailout seems to me to be a tragedy in the making. It is highlighting the issue of monetary union without economic policy union.
The current issues in the West as a whole do show some more fundamental issues. We are getting lax, and other parts of the world work harder for less money than we do.
A decline in our material living standards is to be expected, as capital will flee to areas where it can be made to work harder. Ignoring the problem won’t make it go away.
I think Goldman will eventually settle the charges out of court just to prevent their name from being drug through the mud any more than it has been. But I’ve read what is in the public domain about the charges and the evidence behind the charges, and think the government will have a tough time proving their case. Most congressmen, citizens, and news organizations don’t know the difference between a broker/dealer and an advisor (fiduciary responsibility). Goldman offers both kinds of services and ABACUS came out of the broker/dealer arm, and yes they are non-apologetically amoral. But they’ve already been convicted in the court of public opinion.
As for the Greeks, sounds like they’ve created one helluva mess and it’s going to be very painful to address the root causes of their problems, and doubt the politicians have the backbone or vision to do it.
Frugal Scholar I often feel the same way. And even when I do understand, I often can’t believe it.
Ermine yes, you make an excellent point–it seems to boil down to a question of how much power each nation wants to hold onto and how much each nation will ultimately be able to hold onto. I believe this crisis is going to force everyone to rethink that power ballance. And I tend to agree with your view that we can expect the standard of living to decline across the board. Here in France, like in other countries there is talk of working longer and concern about potentially less pay during retirement. What I wonder is how does France compare to Greece??? There is certainly a healthy under the table market here, deficits are growing and cuts in social spending are sure to be met with strikes. . .
The Biz of Life Welcome and thanks for your comments. I have a hunch you’re right–that it will be very difficult to prosecute Goldman Sachs (although in order to understand why, I find myself watching and re-watching reports and explanations!) It will be very interesting to see if they settle out of court as you suggest. As for the court of public opinion, I’m not entirely sure it matters to them. . .Buyer beware doesn’t seem to work so well when people get greedy.
Ermine does bring up an interesting point.
Will/can all countries who’ve become top-heavy (expect more, contribute less) eventually topple? Thinking of once great societies that crumbled, hasn’t this already been demonstrated?
Is there the potential for role reversal were the countries who work harder for less pull out ahead?
It seems very possible, and I bet you’d see a trend if you graphed out a historical comparison of countries vs. some cocktail of metrics (GDP, quality of life, industry/technology advances, education/health?)
The key component seems to be control (or oppression, depending on the role). Once those ties are broken, would it become a free-for-all?
Like driving a car in snow, your can start sliding but as long as you maintain control of the wheel – you direct the ultimate outcome.
FinEngr–I was just mulling this over yesterday regarding the situation of France (Greece, I don’t have any idea how they’re going to fix that–but I suspect a plunge into some bad times, followed by worse times, followed by building up again from scratch). In France, it SEEMS like there’s still a choice. . .but people are so unwilling to give up on whatever they feel ‘entitled’ to. And all around I see people cheating the system by not paying their fair share of taxes–and then saying everyone else is doing it too. I just taught the fall of the Roman Empire to my 6th graders last year . . .so the concept is on my mind, of course.
I don’t know if a ‘fall’ is inevitable once you get ‘top heavy’ but I do know that governments and empires (and why not economic systems) rise and fall–that’s just what they do. I wonder if the ability to be a little closer to the ground/ a little lower maintenance, will be a benefit to countries who may be ‘up and coming’ in the future.
SIF:
Could you add a comment subscription?
Luckily I was interested to see if you replied, which you did. I also had the roman empire, along with the mayans, in my mind when I wrote the commetn.
To add a point to the ‘top heavy’ – I’m also including ‘inertia’ under that. Once things are put into motion, it can be harder to stop them the larger they are (or more engrained).
Agreed. Everything ebbs and flows with time. Recently I was learning about the cultural shifts within areas of Washington DC. Apparently the infamous georgetown used to be a lower-class ghetto and the now ghettos of southeast used to be very elitist. The city is planning a revitalization of that waterfront now.
FinEngr–I’ll get the comments subscription done soon. That’s a very good idea! As for your comment on the Mayans/ Romans, about 5-6 years ago, I remember reading an article in the Economist about how the French seemed to currently believe that their civilization was ending/falling. The Economist article laid heavily into the British example–not to say that British civilization has fallen, but it’s certainly no longer the empire it once was. The point of the article (if I remember correctly) was that whenever your own civilization sees a slip in standard of living or influence, it feels like a fall. . . and yet, civilization goes on. And your point about inertia makes a lot of sense–some of the problems we see today seem to work as a vicious cycle (corrupt government leads to tax evasion, leads to underfunded programs, leads to . . . )
That’s an interesting bit about DC and Georgetown. I had no idea!
“Politically, however, the US government seems to be heading closer every day towards the kind of monumental political folly that got the Greeks where they are today. I would argue that it’s a matter of degree, and perhaps time.”
I couldn’t agree more with the above sentiment.
Unfortunately, I believe the United States exists as a corporate state. The Goldman Sachs trials are for show. Elected officials and the financial industry are intertwined in a 69-position love fest that isn’t changing anytime soon. The TARP bailouts had no real oversight or required accountability. How absurd is that? The new credit card regulations provided ample time for banks to install new, equally heinous fees and tactics.
Basically, I think Wall Street and a handful of its companies are running the US government. All of these trials, etc., are for show to keep a relatively apathetic population properly sedated.
As for voting folks out, people need to be genuinely informed to make good decisions. Given that the kind and amount of information we’re fed is controlled by corporate interests, I would argue that we can’t have legitimate elections in the current climate. People can’t get the information they need to make well-informed choices.
But I still keep sending my hate mail, complaining loudly, voting as best I can, etc., despite the fact that I think this is simply the beginning of the end of the USA’s hayday. All empires fall, usually under the weight of their own greed. It’s doubtful our young nation will be any different.
(I’m not informed enough on Greece’s issues to comment!)
Consciously Frugal–I’ve actually stopped sending letters to representatives (if that’s what you mean by hate mail
I still remember a time when you’d get an actual written response and could at least tell yourself that your opinion was logged away for consideration. Sigh. In my last rantings I got a form letter from Boxer saying to check her website (ahem), nothing from Feinstein and nothing from Pellozi. Sad, eh? I mean, I know it all used to be run by interns, but to me it’s just one more example of how our government is that much less accessible.
And as for ‘getting the information,’ I actually think the incestuous relationship between the government and business has become so complex and bizarre that you practically need a law degree to understand if it’s legal or not. So you may have lots of information that you can’t even comprehend–or do anything about. I honestly am not sure if the government is being unfairly run by business or if the two have just merged together in some way. Too bad we didn’t worry about separation of powers in that sense–or at least something like ’separation of government and business.’
But once again, in every empire that gets downgraded–or loses its status/influence, life goes on. And these days, a little less influence for the US might not be such a bad thing for the rest of the world. We’ve been involved in some iffy business these past few decades if you ask me.

The difference between BIG world finance and my LITTLE world is so enormous. I really can hardly understand it.