People today: ruder than ever?
Sometimes you hear something so much that it simply starts to seem true: something like cultural brainwashing. I often wonder if that’s true for the premise that people today have somehow taken lack of civility to a new extreme.
It’s easy to see how such brainwashing could occur. I walk around the city on a busy day and see some woman illegally parked and blocking an entire line of traffic–when people honk at her she yells at them. It’s rather like watching Jerry Springer in French. Ugly. And it sticks in my mind, regardless of all the other days I’ve spend wandering the city and never seeing anyone behave like such a cretin.
Later, I run into one of those people in a café and get an earful about how ‘people these days’ don’t know how to act. A vivid (if anomalous) experience plus a little ranting start to create an impression that I have a hard time fighting: people start to seem pretty rude.
I wouldn’t really know if ‘people these days’ have managed to pull of new feats of rudeness since I’ve only been an adult on the lookout for these things for about 10-15 years. Before that, I was simply a rude teenager 
So what about people in the know? People who’ve been mature adults now for decade upon decade?
Do the more experienced, my elders, have some window into the truth or are they just rehashing some old line–a line that may have originated during, say the barbarian invasions in Europe. I can see someone coming up with the term ‘people these days‘ at a time where villages were being sacked and pillaged right and left. What a sheer lack of respect!
Those who argue the world is ruder today:
I see a number of people arguing this point. Some of them, certainly, fall within the ranks of the old and the bitter–you know, the folks who always need to rant about something. But also . . .
- (some) teachers and professors–if you’ve ever worked in education, you’ll stumble upon many a conversation about how young people have attained new heights of incivility. It goes with the trade. As a high school and middle school teacher, I certainly found myself shocked at times–can’t say that a decade or two ago things were different?
- (some) customer service representatives–salespeople, bankers, hotel owners have oft filled my ear about the increasing disrespect they face at the hands of customers who feel increasingly entitled and who use yelling and insults more than ever as a means for getting what they want. Once again–I’m sure being yelled at at and insulted at work would curl my hair and stick out in my mind. I might even be likely to bring it up more later, but does it really happen more now than ever?
- ??? Anyone else feel they’ve seen an increase in incivility in their line of work?
What is rude, anyway?
Many times, when I note a person’s behavior as rude, shocking, uncivilized, It’s because they’ve broken some social rule that I believe in. I often find myself wondering, “Who do you think you are!?”
People argue that adolescents (and even children) no longer ‘respect’ their teachers or elders, harking back to the ‘good old days’ when you could just smack a kid–and if the parents found out they’d smack them again at home. Would we all just be better off –somehow more respectful–if we started smacking the young and impudent again? Or was the ‘respect’ you may have once seen on the part of the young under such conditions simply balanced out by disrespect on the part of the person doing the corporal punishment?
Perhaps not all relationships have changed so drastically as the teacher/student relationship. I’m sure that hotel owners were never in the habit of smacking potential clients who demanded too much or acted too rudely. However, I don’t have any real difficulty imagining acts of rudeness taking place during the 17th century–for example. A wealthy customer walks in the door, insults the hotel owner. . .it seems a fairly believable scenario to me.
However–being disrespectful to someone within the confines of social hierarchy often goes unpunished and unnoticed. I can very easily imagine a a noble insulting a serf with impunity–or for a more typically American historical reference–a white person disrespecting a black person back in the Jim Crow days. I wonder if folks shook their heads at that kind of behavior thinking, “Ugh, people these days are so rude,” or if they perhaps failed to notice the insults and injuries because they fell into a social order that had already been accepted.
One thing is sure, insults and disrespect flowing up the food chain would no doubt have resulted in someone asking the question, “Who do you think you are?” And then most likely dolling some very tangible consequences for the breach in the social order.
Rudeness without the social stratification:
Could it be that these days, you don’t have to be in a position that commands respect or authority to mouth off and say something rude? I’m certain that being the object of rudeness or disrespect doesn’t feel any better today than it ever did. But I suspect that a great deal of disrespect went unnoticed and unpunished in the past because it was socially accepted. Our social hierarchy has weakened since, so we now have an equal opportunity for disrespect.
Perhaps what we need to do is decide whether or not we really want to exercise our new-found ‘right’ to be rude–what do you think?
I have no real experience of living in a kind and gentle culture either. I think that a person would probably have to be a senior citizen to have any real memories of society that had any real manners. I know from looking at pictures of people from the 1940’s and 1950’s that dressing nicely was the norm, all the time. Women wore modest dresses, or tops and skirts, and men dressed nicely too. I think not dressing modestly and appropriately is rudeness in addition to behavorial rudeness. I’m tired of seeing people of all ages, usually youth to middle-aged, dressing so shabbily for events and Church. They even come for job interviews with low cut breast-exposing tops and shorts or tight up to their rear-end clothes and tatoos,(on some.) And I work in a law firm!!! It’s seems like universites and parents do not teach social graces and etiquette at all. In addition to that the “F” word is part of many people’s vocabulary. Please and thank you are not. For years now I have been paying attention to anyone who says please or thank you for anything because those words are so rare. I don’t hear them often. My theory is that since MANY people do not go to Church they have no idea what virtue is. They do not have any idea of self-sacrifice or self-control. They have to give in to all their desires or they can’t be happy. Thinking of someone else’s comfort is a foreign concept to them. It’s always “me first.” I think the culture in the United States has been coarsened and I think the ill-mannered behaviors on TV and in movies reinforces them. I work with the public and find nice well-mannered people to be rare. Bernadette
Frugal Scholar–”the young have always been rude because they lack empathy:” I worked for the first time last year in a school with primary-aged kids and I remember a colleague, a first grade teacher, talking about how we think children are innocent but that they can be very cruel because they are learning about empathy–I think it was part of her actual teaching because without it the children could just be too mean to each other. Interesting point. I also think your point about people being nice/polite being dependent of whether, ultimately, treating you fairly is an interesting one as well–I’ve also experienced that in education. In fact, I think ‘insults’ from teenagers is maybe easier to tolerate than the cold backstabbing of colleagues!
Bernadette I’ve certainly heard similar sentiments from people who ‘work with the public’ as you put it. It’s kind of interesting about the ‘please and thank you’ as well. I was surprised to hear you say that actually: that you don’t see many people using those terms! Here in France, I often find it interesting that people don’t use please/thank you as often I’m used to when asking you to do something–although it’s not necessarily considered in order to be polite here–there are other rules around being polite, however that people tend to respect. Also–when you go to a society where people practice certain manners more often, it can feel like a breath of fresh air–when I stayed in Mexico a few years ago, that’s how it felt. There was just a way people behaved, dressed, carried themselves and I found it very refreshing. Perhaps in the US we’ve become independent in the realm of manners and etiquette. It’s possible. Your statement, “They have to give in to all their desires or they can’t be happy,” also resounded with me. I don’t necessarily think it’s from not going to church–I do not attend myself. But it certainly could stem from leading an unexamined life and perhaps a little extra dose of feeling entitled. . .
As an old buzzard, I’d say people have always been rude. We just have new and better tools with which to practice rudeness today. The cell phone — ah, what a magnificent device! You can yak on it in restaurants, leaving your dining companion alone to stare into space or into her plate while you blab away to friends who are more important than she is. And better yet, you can spend an entire class period texting while the professor drones boringly on and on.
When people stand in front of classrooms all day, they tend to imagine that the bunch in front of them is (fill in the blank: dumber, less educated, funnier-looking, ruder) than previous cohorts. If this were true, today’s students would be incapable of speaking and probably would not have the motor skills to place one foot in front of the other, so far would they have declined from the good old days.
Back in the Dark Ages, students spent classroom time doodling, writing letters to their friends, reading a copy of Playboy hidden inside a spiral notebook, passing notes, and whispering to each other. Are kids rude today? Yeah. But no ruder than their parents were.
Interesting, what you say about rudeness as unnoticeable within certain social constructs. I do think people put up with a great deal of rudeness and downright abuse from some bosses, in a context not unlike nobleman and serf.
I think what we perceive as rudeness comes about when people are crowded together in dense populations. With the exception, as you note, of Mexico City, every large urb I’ve ever visited is full of rude people. As soon as you get outside the city, people behave better. When we’re crammed too close with a lot of strangers, we become irritable and unsympathetic, and so (I expect) we tend to behave impatiently.
Seems to me I remember reading about some experiments that showed rats respond to overcrowding this way, too…
Funny–great comments/observations. I kind of tend to agree with the notion that if we’ve been in constant decline since the ‘good old days’ that we’d be the kind of drooling idiots you describe. And your comment also reminds me of some stories my father has told me (how he used to torment his teachers, elders, authority figures and younger kids etc). And frankly, as a teacher, I didn’t let my students get away with half the shenanigans that I engaged in. I think context has a lot to do with behavior. Interesting bit about the mice and crowding. Sometimes I think a little rudeness or coldness in a city can help you keep from getting bothered by others–I will engage in behavior that I would normally consider rude elsewhere when I’m in a big city and I don’t want anyone ‘messing with me.’ I just feel on guard. Interestingly, Seattle is another ‘friendly’ city and I remember when I first visited it during my college days, I was rather surprised that people passing by on the street said ‘hello’ or smiled sometimes. In LA, I would expect trouble from such people. . .but in Seattle, it’s not so weird to strike up a conversation on the bus, for example. I think once you feel secure in a place, your behavior changes.
I don’t know if people are less polite, or ruder, or whatever these days, but I certainly think that people of all ages are less patient these days, and impatience often comes off as rudeness. We live in a world where things happen quickly, where news (or what passes for news) is constantly changing and instantly updated, where technology is constantly being upgraded. This has translated into a need or expectation to want or have most everything NOW, whether it’s the latest gadget, a solution to a problem at a store, a seat and meal at a restaurant, the other lane in traffic, an equal relationship with a teacher, etc.
I think it’s age-related. Specifically, it’s the only explanation that I can come up with (therefore none other exists ) that explains why other people (especially the young ones) have been considered rude dating hundreds of years back.
Incidentally; very rude of you to ignore the email I sent you a few days ago
Or you could see other people’s behavior as an opportunity to practice patience and politeness. They won’t change their behavior but you can work on your reaction.
I’m not sure if it is age related. A common experience is that my hubby and I will go to the store and he or my son will hold the door open for someone and they just pass through without even a thank you, (as though it is my hubbys only goal in life to hold open a door for them). It happens all the time with all sorts of people, so whenever someone holds the door open for me I always make it a point to say ‘Thank You’.
It’s interesting that you chose to write about this topic today.
I just finished up 5 weeks of working full-time for the U.S. Census Bureau, on the occasion of our 2010 census.
I worked only in my hometown and personally knocked on more than 200 doors in my fairly affluent town.
First, a few observations and facts: If you don’t want a census worker knocking on your door and asking you questions, mail in your survey on time and no one will come to your home.
The census survey takes 5 minutes and helps determine how much federal aid goes to schools and hospitals. So yes, I think it’s worth a few minutes of your time.
By the way, answering the census is required by law (for those who want to look it up, its US Code Title 13 (sections 9, 141, 193, 214 and 221 and Title 44 (section 2108). It’s a misdemeanor not to answer the survey, though there is no enforcement.
But back to the subject of rudeness. I would say that 98% of people I spoke with were cooperative, and even if some were reluctant to answer the questions, they did so. They can refuse to answer specific questions if they like.
But then there’s the other 2%. I ran into a handful of people who were incredibly abusive and rude. Yelling, “Why do I have to f****** do this a second time when I already mailed it in?” That one reduced me to tears. I couldn’t believe she would speak to a stranger like that just for the inconvenience of having to do something twice.
Another one started out polite, then turned rude when I asked, “Is this a vacation home or year-round home?” Question #3. He said, “I don’t have to answer this” and closed the door in my face.
So, my opinion is that rudeness is most definitely not age-related. I think the people who were so rude during my census work assumed that because I was working for a federal agency that I lived somewhere far away, not right here in my hometown. Would they still speak to a neighbor like that?
Ironically, it was the few households with families that were not native American that were the most polite to me. Maybe they thought that as a federal government employee, I could “make trouble” for them. Or maybe they hadn’t learned the cynicism of Americans who scoff at the importance of a census that’s been done every 10 years since 1740.
I think you hit the nail on the head early in your post. The rude and uncivil guy with the bad language and lack of manners stands out more and so you remember him more than the countless number of people you saw who behaved properly.
When I worked part time in a retail store I’d say 95% of the people I dealt with had excellent manners. But it’s that 5% that I still remember vividly to this day. Those *@^%!^%#!! 
I haven’t read all the comments, so please forgive me if I repeat what anyone else has said!
Newsweek had an editorial not too long ago about the myth of kinder days, citing some of the heinous crap politicians of old used to say about their peers. I was surprised, because I was a firm believer in We Are Getting Worse.
I think there is something to the We Are Getting Worse, but not in the way we assume. Most of us are mobile these days. Very few of us live in the same community for our entire lives. Many of us moved from rural communities to urban ones for employment.
SOOOO, me thinks it’s actually more about moving from familiar to unfamiliar environments, which can seem colder. We also have new technologies around which we don’t have well-defined parameters on what is socially acceptable (think loud cell phone talkers).
I decided that I would keep my rural, small town friendly ways in the big city and I’ve found that most folks are friendly and my big city feels much like a small town. I think how we approach situations can frequently determine the quality of those situations.
Fern’s comment is REALLY interesting! I’ve often wondered how census takers fare out there…glad to hear that most people are at least polite. It’s actually kind of amazing that people will open the door to census takers — in my area, few of the neighbors answer the door unless they know who’s on the other side.
Personally, I dislike being asked personal questions by strangers. Despite recognizing the value of the census, I’ve been asked nosy questions by marketers so many times that I’ve developed a knee-jerk “none-of-your-business” response, which I’m sure is perceived as rude by the other person. I think it’s rude to ask a stranger a personal question, and I admit that I tend to respond to rudeness with hostility.
LOL! None of that turning the other cheek bidness around here! Guess we need to practice a little more forbearance, at least where the census workers are concerned.
I’ve been working for the census too. From what I can see, most people are willing to answer your questions, but the ones that wont, well, as they say, hell hath no fury. From what I have seen, the most well-to-do doors I’ve knocked on are the ones who are most likely to be rude to me. One girl working our operation had a gun pulled on her, and I have to say, that has me a little worried!
Kids seem ruder but adults seem about the same. I think the sense of entitlement has led kids to think they can get away with anything.
I am still working for the Census. I wrapped up my 5 weeks in my hometown, and now have been asked to do cleanup work in a nearby city where response rates have been well behind where they should be by now.
I’ve had no guns drawn on me (and would likely quit if that happened, I have no desire to be a martyr for the Census Bureau) but I have had 2 people call the cops on me after I left.
I blame those incidents on the Bureau itself. They tell you in training never to get involved in an argument and that if the residents become irate, to leave. At the same time, they don’t accept “no” for an answer and tell you to try to get the information you need by engaging the person in conversation, responding to their concerns or whatever. The problem is that a politely worded “no” can became an angry encounter in just a few seconds if you don’t get the hint and persist.
The Bureau puts you in a Catch 22 position.
Where are you, Trish? You haven’t posted in a while. Are you okay?
same question as Jennifer
hope you are fine
same here. we miss you!!
claudia
Definitely missing your posts! I really enjoy reading the musings of SIF, so I hope you are just on holiday, and will be back with us soon.
Everything OK? Haven’t heard from you for a little while, and just thought I would drop you a line. I hope DH is doing well and your silence is just because you have been busy.
I know you guys were supposed to be moving at some point, and maybe its just that, but I figured you would have left some sort of “I wont be around for a while as I move house” post or something. I think we’re all just hoping to know you are okay!
I miss you. Hope all is well.
I miss you too, hope everything is OK, and that you are just busy with real life !
Where art thou?
Maybe the computer broke? Bernadette
How ironic is the subject of your last post! Now, I hope I’m correct in assuming that the subject is not a statement. In fact, I have de-lurked just to wail “Where is she?”because I just can’t stand your absence any longer. Please let us know how you are. It this just a technology glitch? Is is all a bad dream?
If anyone in cyberspace knows anything, please take pity on those of us who are clueless and really don’t want to appear rude and/or nosey!
It does seem odd there is no response at all. Bernadette
I’ve been checking each day to see if the site has been updated. I’m hoping for good news and that everything is okay. And even if it’s not okay, we are all here for you.
She’s okay everyone. She’s just on an extended vacation right now with her DH. I’ve emailed her a couple of times. Don’t worry! She’ll be baaaaa-aaaack!
She’s adventuring in the realosphere!
@Pickler, YAY! I know you are real life friends with her so I take your word for it. I wish she would have let us know! XD
A “I’m going on vacation” would have BEEN NICE.
Thanks Pickler for the update. A long vacation with DH was well deserved. We miss you Trish! Enjoy that vacation.
Dear SIF,
Hope you are enjoying your holiday! Can’t wait for you to come back- missing your posts in Idaho:)
People in east Asia (South Korea) are very polite. When I visited New England, the folks there were polite, too.
There exist rude and uneducated people everywhere, but yes, areas with less social stratification tend to have more of it on display.
Dear Stress Warrior (Pickler),
Thanks for the update. Any idea when Trish will be back so I can stop torturing myself wondering when she’ll return?
Yes, it’s starting to get spooky…
2 months? Some vacation.
I imagine her somewhere fantastic, living real life, talking with real people and musing …. “this is what life should be about..the laughter, the wine,the friendships….I resolve to throw my computer off of a cliff and start living real life.” While we slave away from day to day in cubicles without our Simple Life in France life raft of sanity.
We miss you…
Today’s kids and youth are no worst then it was many years ago. Back then kids thought and acted out and some were punished severely.
I would say today there are more kids growing up in broken families(divorce rate is 50%- 30 years ago that was only 20%)and kids don’t know how to work through their emotional fears and pain so they act up.
We, adult on the other hand – have to learn to disagree without being rude.People are self centered and everything is all about us … we don’t know that the other person why behaves as they behave. I don’t like to excuse stupidity, but we all have our bad days. Let’s try to be more patient with each other.
@Diane, I have no idea when she’ll be back. I talked to her recently, but forgot to ask… Sorry, y’all. Rest assured, she’s fine though. I’ll Facebook her and let her know that her fans are concerned.
Melanie–hah! For a while I have been kind of repulsed by computers, it’s true. But mostly it’s just been about keeping my head above water .
Bernadette–I’m not sure vacation is what I’d call it–kind of like one part chaos mixed with one part exhaustion and just trying to keep my energy up.
Diane and Tracy-sorry!! I’m not dead in a ditch somewhere. Just couldn’t keep up.
I think the young are–probably always have been–”rude” because they lack empathy. It’s part of the “age.” Sometimes I can’t believe the things students say to me–and I have a certain amount of power–but I try not to take it personally.
“Manners” can cover up cruelty sometimes. Once a fellow “outsider” in the South–who had twice been denied early promotion by her polite colleagues–said “Just because they are nice to you doesn’t mean they like you.” I think you can unravel those negatives and get to her point!
And cruelty in hierarchies–as you mention above–goes far beyond impoliteness. Academics is a hierarchy as much as the military: you have to be nice to everyone over you and they can treat you any way they want. The untenured have no recourse. Again, I try to be mindful of this now that I have some seniority.